Legendary Reversed Horseshoes

[Draco]

Post 2 of 2 split due to length...

Experiment proposals:
Dealing with a real animal may be problematic here so two proposals will be supplied to answer the questions at hand which are:
1) Can you reverse shod a horse and still have it be able to get above a walk?
2) Would the tracks be convincing enough to fool a tracker looking at weight distribution, hoof pattern, and dirt/snow kick?

Live critter test: the most representative way to test this would be to use a live horse (there are of course potential problems with this. Thus a vet should be on hand and a farrier consult as well to ensure all is fine... it's also possible that insurance would not permit this, thus a second optional test will follow). Since we are interested in only the general idea--a general purpose riding horse should do, perhaps veering towards the heavier side to represent the stockier breeds of older Europe. It had been prior suggested to employ the use of a type of horse boot that slips over the hooves and mount the shoes to it. Ride the horse at a walk and up through the gates as it can across a prepared patch of ground preferably a variable one to see the tracks left in soft pack earth, harder packed, grass, and the all-time best would be snow if this could be worked out! Then reverse the shoes attachments and do the same right beside the tracks previously laid, but running in the opposite direction... this way the direction of the shoes match, but not the direction the animal traveled. Examine the tracks and see how closely they match, even ask a tracker to look and see if they can tell which direction the horse traveled in.

Optional robot test: If a horse cannot be reverse shod in any manner, then perhaps it might be feasible to build some sort of robot or device that would mimic the placement of the horses hooves in pattern. We have seen some amazing builds, look at the shark! Being able to reverse the shoes should be easy enough to do. Employ the same method as above and take a look at how the tracks pair out.

Historic legends tell us that at least four figures used this method to fool pursuers... but did they really do this, or is it just a fabricated bardic tale?

Secondary fun fact: there are also stories of horse shoes with cloven attachments to make a horses tracks look like a cow or oxen prints. More creative attempts to fool someone, or simply play a Medieval gag. When I have more time I will try to relocate the lost links and information, if nothing else than to have them as resource information.

*I hope I did not miss anything critical as I tried to recall what has vanished from the thread hence, this is the gist of it*

[Typical_08]

Draco. I came across a bit of info from the history channel while I was in TX. Apparently starting in the 6th century instead of nailing or gluing shoes on they attached the metal shoe to a leather boot that would slip over the hoof. They said that there were reports that this type of shoe saw use off and on in some parts of the world until the 12th century. If so it could be possible that  King Alphonso used the boot and put it on backwards. That would have allowed him to simply and quickly change the way the tracks looked.

[Draco]

It's possible, Typical... save for the information in reply #14 of this thread which has a strong reference directly quoted about the shoeing methods of the time.

I did see the horse boots in the attached pet supply store where I work and it does seem possible that with some playing around they might be able to get that method to work. As to what speed they could attain with the horse safely, that is something that needs to be assessed by a vet or farrier. The boots that I peeked at were for trail riding.

[katie-brooks]

Draco, is it possible to find all the info that was lost when the board went down??

[Wolfyhound]

Posts lost from that are gone-gone.  No retrieval.  But it's okay, we know what we wrote.. and write it better the second time.  Nice summary Draco.

[Draco]

Thanks Wolfy.  I tried to recall all the main points that we'd touched upon. I'm pretty sure I didn't miss any... but if I did, please feel free to post them again for discussion. My memory is only sooooo good. 

[leopard]

Though any live-horse testing done for the show must be done humanely, I have come to doubt that such concerns would have been paramount in the historical / legendary context.  Most of the accounts involve the desperate escape of a nobleman, and, in such a situation, I believe that the long-term health of the horses used would be a minor consideration, so long as the escape itself were successful.

In reaching that conclusion, I think I may be drawing on my recollection of stories in which messengers rode horses to the point of death by exhaustion, and starving calvary in retreat slaughtered their horses to eat.  Though horses were certainly valuable in former times, they were regarded foremost for their utilitarian attributes - and far, far less for their value as companions or pets.

With this point of view in mind, one would have to take into account the marks in a track that a horse might make in distress.  I would think that these would be obvious to any tracker.  If the legendary escapes were made at night, however, and with the use of one or more decoy riders, they could well have succeeded.

[Draco]

Another good point!!! Since the details are so sketchy of the historic escapes it is hard to know! What difference would there be between viewing the tracks by day or at night by something like a torch or a lantern, or even the full moon? These are details, but to observe them would not be too difficult. Return to the laid out track after dark and shine an oil lantern over the track. Time it for a full moon and see how that shows up as well. Hrmmm, that would be curious.

As far as horses back in historic times it seems to differ by whom you are referring to. Poorer farm folk who depended on them were probably much less likely to do anything that would risk a primary beast of burden. However, someone who had access to a stable full of horses to ride would have the luxury of a riskier treatment. I'm also pretty sure when looking at the value of say Robert the Bruce's head over the potential lameness of a horse the decision was obvious to risk the hoof over the head. All the more reason that any potential live animal testing need be done with caution and proper professionals on hand to call it if there is a problem.

But consider this: if they do start to test on a live animal and it cannot even get above a walk without showing the possibility of problems that kind of busts it right there! The nice thing about using the boots is that they can removed quickly rather than a shoe having been nailed on.

[Cybermortis]

Out of interest could you design a horse-boot that could be fitted over normal shoes? Just wondering if someone could fit a boot over normal shoes that would leave 'backwards' tracks?

[Wolfyhound]

A regular boot can go over a shod or unshod hoof.  They just are usually used on unshod hooves, so the shoes don't interfere in the fit of the boot, or wear out the bottom of the boot.

[Draco]

Ok, just did a quick look for horse boots and this site looked pretty good for explaining the jist. This is not necessarily the brand they have to go with... just a good illustration of what they are.

Boa Horse Boot