Episode #50 Bullets Fired up!

[firearrow31]

Well, here's the thing, O2:  Your lazy dog bombs have fins that stabilize them.  They are obviously meant to keep them in nose-down position and minimize drag, so their terminal velocity will be much greater.

[Dread]

I loved the Vodka part of the episode but had a real hard time dealing with the Bullet Part.  Some problems I had where:

1) They keep firing bullets into Balistic Gell, Water, the ground etc. and keep on trying to use the penetration from these impacts as some sort of reference to how much force the bullet is really producing or how it would behave in another environment. Each time they do this they discover what every Gun owner knows, that a bullets penetration level is relative to velocity and composistion of the bullet and the substance it's impacting and that a faster more powerfull bullet may have less penetration than a slower bullet, because it expands creating more surface area or it may break apart.  They keep on learning this point like when Jamie fired the gun in the Pool then later they forget when Adam fires the Bullets into the Ballistic Gell then they remeber again then they forget again and redo the same thing again when Jamie firing the guns into the desert ground and measures the penetration.

2) Second problem was that  all they needed from the start was to measure the terminal velocity of the bullet and use that plus the weight of the bullet to calculate out the amount of force the bullet would generate on impact.   In the end that's all it came down to so I was surprised about all the other stuff they did.

I liked the story but in the end it just got so complicated that it came to the wrong conclusion, Bullets fired up into the air do not kill people, I actualy know someone who got clunked in the head by a 9mm Round and all he got was a slight cut and a red welt.  There are probably hundreds of people world wide that get hit each year by falling rounds and I have never heard of anybody being killed or even seriously hurt. LOL if this myth was true, half the people at a Hamas celebration would be dead.

[sas]

Dread,
Terminal Velocity is the answer, as you indicate. But you must also remember that this *is* a television show. A two minute spot on terminal velocity, though informative, would not be all that riveting.

Let me also remind you about their ever present detractors (if you don't know what I mean, go to the board that shall not be named). "They didn't test it this way", "They didn't test it that way", "They didn't use an ice bullet", etc.... the griping goes on and on and on.

They used varying methods to arrive at the same conclusion. Happens all the time.

- sas

[kb7rky]

I loved the Vodka part of the episode but had a real hard time dealing with the Bullet Part.  Some problems I had where:

1) They keep firing bullets into Balistic Gell, Water, the ground etc. and keep on trying to use the penetration from these impacts as some sort of reference to how much force the bullet is really producing or how it would behave in another environment. Each time they do this they discover what every Gun owner knows, that a bullets penetration level is relative to velocity and composistion of the bullet and the substance it's impacting and that a faster more powerfull bullet may have less penetration than a slower bullet, because it expands creating more surface area or it may break apart.  They keep on learning this point like when Jamie fired the gun in the Pool then later they forget when Adam fires the Bullets into the Ballistic Gell then they remeber again then they forget again and redo the same thing again when Jamie firing the guns into the desert ground and measures the penetration.

2) Second problem was that  all they needed from the start was to measure the terminal velocity of the bullet and use that plus the weight of the bullet to calculate out the amount of force the bullet would generate on impact.   In the end that's all it came down to so I was surprised about all the other stuff they did.

I liked the story but in the end it just got so complicated that it came to the wrong conclusion, Bullets fired up into the air do not kill people, I actualy know someone who got clunked in the head by a 9mm Round and all he got was a slight cut and a red welt.  There are probably hundreds of people world wide that get hit each year by falling rounds and I have never heard of anybody being killed or even seriously hurt. LOL if this myth was true, half the people at a Hamas celebration would be dead.

Obviously you don't appreciate the show in it's entirety. We're sorry that the Mythbusters' extensive testing doesn't meet your approval or expectations. If this is the only complaint you have against the show, then you, sir, are quite shortsighted in your interests.

Doug

[Dread]

Sorry, I did not know about another forum, also I did not know that negative comments are not posted on this forum. I am not here to make waves and I do like this forum so I will stick to the rules, sorry.

Dread,
Terminal Velocity is the answer, as you indicate. But you must also remember that this *is* a television show. A two minute spot on terminal velocity, though informative, would not be all that riveting.

Let me also remind you about their ever present detractors (if you don't know what I mean, go to the board that shall not be named). "They didn't test it this way", "They didn't test it that way", "They didn't use an ice bullet", etc.... the griping goes on and on and on.

They used varying methods to arrive at the same conclusion. Happens all the time.

- sas

[sas]

Sorry, I did not know about another forum, also I did not know that negative comments are not posted on this forum. I am not here to make waves and I do like this forum so I will stick to the rules, sorry.

Constructive criticism is always welcome. You will find that many members offer differing testing methodologies based upon their particular backgrounds. But we must always temper that with the knowledge that it is a television show. One that we apparently share a liking for.

The aforementioned board is the 'official' board run by the television channel. IMHO it is a cesspool of people who think that they can do things better than the MBs. But I digress.

Personally, I like it when they show tests that failed outright (eg the ballistics gel test to determine how high the bullet will go).  It's nice to see that they're human and that "failure is always an option.

- sas

[Dread]

The overal extensive testing they do in most episodes does meet with my approval, but in truth I can't think of many things in life that I appreciate in there "entirety", if you do love the show in it's "entirety", more power to you!

The fact that I have actually seen somebody hit by a falling bullet kind of biased my opinion on the outcome, and while I don't want to say anything negative again, I did feel that they might have over analysed the situation and thats why they had that confusing conclusion.  BTW in many 3rd world countries like Jamaica you find that at New Years Eve parties it's very normal for people to take out their hand guns at midnight and fire a few rounds up in the air, some times you will have 30 - 100 people firing guns at the stroke of midnight, and I have never heard of anybody being killed or seriously hurt.

Obviously you don't appreciate the show in it's entirety. We're sorry that the Mythbusters' extensive testing doesn't meet your approval or expectations. If this is the only complaint you have against the show, then you, sir, are quite shortsighted in your interests.

Doug

[edit by sas to fix quote tags]

Most times I like to see them doing all the tests even if it seems obvious what will happen, I guess there are always those surprise cases like when they used the Chinese drum. BTW Thanks for the link info, I like to see all the opinions so I will give it a quick look, but overall I don't like senseless arguments and bashing, so I will stay here and observe the rules.

The aforementioned board is the 'official' board run by the television channel. IMHO it is a cesspool of people who think that they can do things better than the MBs. But I digress.

Personally, I like it when they show tests that failed outright (eg the ballistics gel test to determine how high the bullet will go).  It's nice to see that they're human and that "failure is always an option.

- sas

(edited by River to fix double posting)

[BlackWidowNor]

Dread.

Every year there are stories in cities (like Detroit.. where I live) about people being killed by bullets that where fired in the air during New Years Eve.  It does happen.  Bullets fired STRAIGHT UP will come down with terminal velocity and klunk someone on the head.  Bullets fired in almost any other position form a arc shaped trajectory and do not loose most momentum. 

The doctor on the show was an expert and had x-rays from two recent cases.  On of which resulted in procecution.  The other which resulted in death.

Nor

[ban_sidhe]

BTW in many 3rd world countries like Jamaica you find that at New Years Eve parties it's very normal for people to take out their hand guns at midnight and fire a few rounds up in the air, some times you will have 30 - 100 people firing guns at the stroke of midnight, and I have never heard of anybody being killed or seriously hurt.

1. When I was growing up in Phoenix, some yahoo fired his rifle off into the air. The round hit and killed a girl watching a baseball game over a mile away.

2. In Three Points, where I live, there are loads of yahoos with guns. They like to fire them into the air on New Years Eve and such. A couple of years ago, one of the bullets fired into the air went through the wall of a pregnant woman's trailer and hit her. Fortunately, though she was injured, both she and the baby survived.

There are quite a few documented cases similar to these, so clearly, people DO get killed and seriously hurt.

---------------------------------------------------

Great show overall! I actually liked the Vodka myths (I haven't cared much for the past ones). Poor John the Researcher, though...    I wonder where the "10% of the population is not allergic to poison oak" statistic comes from. Sounds like it needs to be revisited!

I'm glad they did the Bullets Fired Up myth and the results were pretty much what I expected. No doubt the Disco people are coming up with all sorts of reasons they did it wrong...  Like a few other people have mentioned, I cringed when they fired the guns into the ground. You never know what's under there.

Dr. Mohler is my co-worker's cousin's husband. There's a close connection for you. 

[BlackWidowNor]

"Six Degrees of MythBusters"

Hmmmmm.... very kewl.

Nor

[PretenderNX01]

I thought I'd comment on the falling bullets, IMDB also is full of people who claim to know science and yet obviously don't when they try to bust confirmed myths so I had posted these there:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20060102-9999-1m2hail.html

January 2, 2006

Falling bullets injured two people and narrowly missed a half-dozen children after New Year's Eve revelers fired guns into the air across San Diego County.

The most serious injury involved a 27-year-old woman whose shoulder was pierced by a stray bullet as she stood on her apartment balcony on Felicita Avenue in Escondido.


Thirty miles away, a man was hit on a hand by a bullet that had passed through a wall of his Chamoune Avenue house in the Swan Canyon neighborhood of San Diego.

Additionally, a family in the Chollas View neighborhood of San Diego had a close call when a bullet came through the roof of their house on Lise Avenue, landing in a bedroom where six children slept. The children were not hurt. Two adults also were in the house.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2004/02/16/falling_bullets_an_issue_in_iraqi_town/

By Eric Talmadge, Associated Press Writer, 2/16/2004
SAMAWAH, Iraq -- Eight-year-old Zehra Kadhum was outside near her family's garage playing, when she saw her parents kneel to pray. As she bent down to join them, she felt a sharp pain.
   
"I thought my sister had kicked me," she said from her hospital bed Sunday. "But I was bleeding and I heard my family shouting and my mother was crying."

Zehra had been hit in the back by a bullet dropping out of the sky.

Like many places throughout Iraq, there is a gun in virtually every household in this desert city, some 230 miles southeast of Baghdad. The sound of weapons -- from AK-47 rifles to small-caliber pistols -- is as much a part of the evening din as is the chanting of the daily prayers.

It happens that both of these involved people being struck in the body and not the head, but I'm sure it could have been fatal if they had been struck in the head. 

[Wolfyhound]

Although a lot of those sound more like they were still not shot straight up and falling under only terminal velocity, bullets fired randomly are ALWAYS a stupid stupid idea.  If you don't know what you are going to hit, you don't fire a weapon.  Ridiculous.
By the way Pretender, great links!! Thank you!!!
Wolfy(who likes to shoot her guns at things, not at random, what did random ever do to me anyway?)

[Dread]

 I was going to comment on that but you beat me to it.  If a bullet falls very far away from the shooter, that's a clear indication that it was not shot straight up but at an angle. In cases like that the bullets speed will go way past terminal velocity.  BTW if shooting straight up was such a killer I doubt that police world wide would use the practice of shooting warning shots into the air.

Although a lot of those sound more like they were still not shot straight up and falling under only terminal velocity, bullets fired randomly are ALWAYS a stupid stupid idea.  If you don't know what you are going to hit, you don't fire a weapon.  Ridiculous.
By the way Pretender, great links!! Thank you!!!
Wolfy(who likes to shoot her guns at things, not at random, what did random ever do to me anyway?)

[oscardeuce]

I'm not sure how much those little fins stablize the bomb compared to the weight and shape. I'd be interested to see if the rounds tumble that much in free fall.

Anyone else catch the reference to the M-1 Garand as an "assault rifle". It is definitely not! An assault rifle is selective fire both semi and full auto. It is chambered for an intermediate power round, not a full charge rifle round. The M-1 Garand fires only semi auto (one pull of the trigger fires only 1 round).

[Antigone68104]

Personally, I like it when they show tests that failed outright (eg the ballistics gel test to determine how high the bullet will go).  It's nice to see that they're human and that "failure is always an option.

I like the honesty involved in leaving the goofs in the finished show.

On this particular episode ... Wolfy, you weren't the only one thinking "metal detector" .  I was also wondering why they went with pig heads instead of their old friend "human skull inside ballistics gel casting".  Nice setup, though, I wouldn't have thought wind would be such an issue.

It's a little late to send get well cards to John the researcher, but he has my best wishes anyway.  Grant, who picked up the bandaids?  Wouldn't a smaller one have been less painful?  I hadn't run across the filtering myth before, nice presentation.