Episode #50 Bullets Fired up!

[river95]

They didn't disregard the information - they just wanted to be able to make it happen in the shop.

[PretenderNX01]

His information was what earned the "confirmed" part. Their tests of the varying angles got the "busted" for straight up and "plausible" for at an angle. They couldn't confirm it in their tests but his case studies did.

[GarandFan]

Major General Hatcher was in the Army since before WWI. He worked in the small arms field that entire time.

He started his serious shooting tasks showing commanders how to properly use their machine guns during America's foray into Mexico. He retired from the Army after WWII and became the technical director for the NRA for many years.

He wrote several books about subjects of interest to the shooting community, including a great book about the Garand rifle--the rifle on this episode.

He also wrote "Hatcher's Notebook", in which addressed several topics of interest to shooters. One of the chapters describes his government sponsored testing of shooting straight up in the air, after WWI.

He used the same type of round as the Garand used in the show, but in a military bolt action rifle. They worked on a calm bay in Florida, with a covered shooting platform and a jig that could be adjusted to account for the winds aloft and thus walk the rounds back into the wood used to cover the shooting platform. Using both the impact on the wood, and calculations using the known drag coefficents and terminal velocity along w/ the time of flight, he figured out that the bullets were hitting about 300 FPS, much less than the "lethal" standard used by the army for bullets.

He also remarked that shooting at an angle would be dangerous.

Most published tables start the ballistic arc for bullets at about 70 degrees, ie about 20 degrees off straight up. This means that most bullets will keep a usable velocity at or below that angle. This is how many of the New Years "bullets falling from the sky" deaths and injuries happen.

As a bonus, Hatcher also wrote in his Notebook of his other cool experiments such as shooting bullets into water from rifles and pistols, and my personal favorite--- shooting a rifle and pistol underwater.

What I am saying is that a whole lot of the show's fun gun tasks were done by Hatcher at government expense a long time ago. They are still neat to watch.

[PretenderNX01]

What I am saying is that a whole lot of the show's fun gun tasks were done by Hatcher at government expense a long time ago. They are still neat to watch.

Yeah, they're not the first to study or confirm "falling bullets", nor are they the only ones testing them now.
The show simply takes myths that are still out there (not always brand new ones) and tests the myth themselves. 

The conclusions on the show are their conclusions, not the only ones available in the world nor do they claim to be the only ones.

[dont_delete_this1]

I enjoyed this show very much (shooting of guns).  I admit I was a little surprised that shooting them straight up made them basically non-lethal, but after seeing the show and thinking about it, it made sense to me for a regular bullet due to the shape (and having taken 1.5 years of physics).  The only way for it to have the exact same speed returning to the ground would be if it was in a vaccuum and the bullet was able to turn around completely when it reached it's highest point.

With that said, what about a musket ball that is round?  I would think the speed would be much closer to the muzzle velocity since you take away a lot of the unbalanced rocking and spinning that you get with conventional bullets.

Jamie and Adam?  One more time!

[Wolfyhound]

Terminal velocity of a round musket ball will still be considerably slower than the exit velocity out of the barrel.  It would still be interesting for them to float a round musket ball to see what the terminal velocity would be, as opposed to the muzzle exit velocity.  I find myself wanting ot construct a windtunnel type thing like Adam did just to put things in to find the terminal velocity.
Wolfy

[dont_delete_this1]

http://kcbs.com/topic/ap_news.php?story=AP/APTV/National/a/a/BRF--StrayBullet-Deat-aa
AP News   
 
 
Jacksonville girl, 13, killed when stray bullet enters her room
Monday May 15, 2006

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP) A 13-year-old girl was fatally struck by a stray bullet while reading in her bedroom, authorities said.

A rifle round was fired in the parking lot of her apartment building shortly after midnight Sunday, Jacksonville County Sheriff officials said.

Shenice Tian Holmes, a seventh-grade honors student, was reading in bed when she was struck once in the chest, Sheriff John Rutherford said.

The girl's mother and 11-year-old brother were also home, but were not injured.

Investigators were trying to determine what led to the shooting and who fired the gun. ``We are certain they are from this area,'' Rutherford said.

(Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
 
 

[sas]

Though tragic, there is no indication that this was from a 'bullet fired up'. This has happened several times in my area due to 'gang violence' on the streets, etc. I'm sure that Nor could recount tales of similar tragedies from the MI area.

- sas

[BlackWidowNor]

Another yahoo who thinks that shooting in the air is harmless.

* BlackWidowNor sighs

I feel for the family because of this senseless death.

Nor

[Lisa Nix]

There was a shootout in the parking lot in front of her apt, she was in a first floor unit facing the street & the bullet came in horizontally. It's a rough neighborhood but you ought to be able to sit in your damn room & read. We are good friends with her teacher at Highlands Middle School. She was a great kid with unlimited potential. I cant even talk about it without feeling sick.

[Wyoming Cowboy]

http://kcbs.com/topic/ap_news.php?story=AP/APTV/National/a/a/BRF--StrayBullet-Deat-aa
AP News   
 
 
Jacksonville girl, 13, killed when stray bullet enters her room
Monday May 15, 2006

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP) A 13-year-old girl was fatally struck by a stray bullet while reading in her bedroom, authorities said.

A rifle round was fired in the parking lot of her apartment building shortly after midnight Sunday, Jacksonville County Sheriff officials said.

Shenice Tian Holmes, a seventh-grade honors student, was reading in bed when she was struck once in the chest, Sheriff John Rutherford said.

The girl's mother and 11-year-old brother were also home, but were not injured.

Investigators were trying to determine what led to the shooting and who fired the gun. ``We are certain they are from this area,'' Rutherford said.

(Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
 
 

Read the article.  Dont know why they think it is/was a stray bullet.  The article leave out LOTS of needed info,  Im of more of the feeling that it was a "direct hit"..  Very tragic indeed but im sure it wasnt a fired up bullet.





And to GARAND,  Good job.  Atleast somebody else has heard of hatchers notebook.

Brad

[Lisa Nix]

They think it was a stray bullet because she was a 7th grade honors student reading in her bedroom-not exactly the type to incur a 'direct hit'. Also maybe because there was an exchange of bullets in the parking lot outside her window. I'm no Colombo but that's my guess.

[BlackWidowNor]

Unless they were aiming for her bedroom, it's a stray.

Regardless of the facts of how the bullet was fired, it's a tragic, needless death of a girl who had unlimited potential and now we'll never know - she might have been the person to cure cancer.

Nor (who's disgusted by this kind of story... dumbass gangbangers)

[Wyoming Cowboy]

They think it was a stray bullet because she was a 7th grade honors student reading in her bedroom-not exactly the type to incur a 'direct hit'. Also maybe because there was an exchange of bullets in the parking lot outside her window. I'm no Colombo but that's my guess.

Agreed.  I believe the problem is the TOMATO , To-m-ato thing.  I have been taught and of the belief that a STRAY refers to one that is either RICOCHED or "fired up" like in the myth originally posted. 

I would say that she took a DIRECT HIT merely on the ballistic standpoint.  Even if she was not the intended target

My post had nothing to do with why she was hit or who she was.  I apologize if it came off that way.  THis kind of thing is not only (obviously) devastating to the community and family,  but exastorbates a cycle of violence. 

Brad

[BlackWidowNor]

The way that the news uses the term "stray" means "hitting a target that it was not intended" - Even if the <insert appropriate curse worse here> intended to shoot at the building, there was no way he/she/it could have known it would hit an innocent.

Nor